Something to mention about fsf's gifting giving.

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Zoma
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Iscritto: 11/05/2024

This does more harm then good if you recommend really old hardware especially pre-ivybridge.

You may not wish to hear this, but I feel like it should be said a few things:

1: Replicant is not ready for consumers as a smart phone replacement
People might get pissed off at FSF for recommending them to buy those because their loved ones get angry at it not working with 5G/4G. A smartphone is useless in most people's minds if it cannot use a carrier with 4G or 5G.
This could turn people away from the FSF and GNU movements in droves.

I don't at all think FSF should recommend that till they make it at least have LTS working properly on 4G or 5G devices. more likely the latter and at 90% stability it least.

2: Gnuboot devices are really old and while these can be used a lot more effectively than replicant devices for their intended purposes, they might still be too slow for people.

3: Some people would even find trouble using canoeboot devices for the same purpose as gnuboot.

You might even find problems with people suggesting libreboot devices despite their blobs allowing lots of new hardware.

In essence, i think these things need to be addressed in some form.

The replicant one is especially dubious since it likely will fall short of most people's expectations. I have used smartphones and I know what people expect from them. No LTS, 4G, 5G will be huge hinderances to people as said above.

I expect some diehard GNU people will thumb this down and reject reality, but in my opinion, this kind of stuff does far more harm then good.

the 3rd point I could at least see being somewhat reasonable for some people.

But point 2 25% less so and point 1 is a really bad idea altogether.

So... yeah

I feel like I should be messaging FSF at least about point 1 honestly.

tonlee
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Iscritto: 09/08/2014

Have you understood what fsf is about? Free software is software that has a license granting the user a right to use, share, modify and redistribute the software. If a piece of software has such a license it is free software. Fsf is an entity which promotes only free software. It does not matter if a given piece of software is good or bad, effective or ineffective, has user appeal. Only the license matters. What are you suggesting? Should fsf in some cases promote non free software? You can decide if and when you want to use non free software. And your decision is non of fsf's business. And nobody should tell fsf to move away from their principles.

> more harm then good
Maybe you are right. Let people make their own decisions on what hardware they want to use.

> Replicant is not ready for consumers as a smart phone replacement
I agreed if you say a replicant phone will not meet most people's requirements to a phone. But fsf can only promote free software. Note if a samsung phone is running replicant it is also running non free software.

> turn people away
Irrelevant. What matters is if a piece of software has a free software license.

> need to be addressed
They are. Fsf says use only free software.

Most people are ignorant about the matter of free software. And part of them even if they got aware about free software they would still use non free software. How many people want a free software phone or free software notebook? 10? 100000? 10000000? Making a free software phone or notebook takes money. If there are millions of free software people, then they are to blame for not getting together and getting free software phones and notebooks manufactured.

Zoma
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Iscritto: 11/05/2024

Well, I can maybe give you the benefit of the doubt on canoeboot and gnuboot, but replicant is a really bad idea that could and will blow up in their face and cause backlash.

And that backlash will make people not want any part of GNU/Linux and make people want to stay away from it.

The best advice is just to say avoid smartphones if replicant is all that is available.

Yes most people are ignorant, but demonizing them won't solve anything.

tonlee
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Iscritto: 09/08/2014

I was not aware that you likely were referring to https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v15/
What exactly do you want fsf to do? Do you want fsf to not mention replicant? Fsf does warn about the insufficiencies of replicant. But they should also say you do not get a phone having all devices running and a samsung replicant phone will be running non free software.

Zoma
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Iscritto: 11/05/2024

Not mentioning replicant till it can at least do 50% of the things people expect from smartphones would be wise. Actually, 50% would be the bare minimum, 75% would be better in my opinion.

Avron

I am a translator!

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Iscritto: 08/18/2020

With the same reasoning, GNU/Linux distros would need to remove software that isn't fulfilling the desires of 50% of people, if not more, while such pieces of software may be perfectly suitable for a large number of people, and even have features that other software don't have.

I have been using Replicant until I had coverage problems, most likely due to phasing out of 2G and 3G. For voice calls, SMS, xmpp, calendar/contatcs and sync with a CalDaV/CardDaV server, and synchronization of files with syncthing, it worked perfectly fine, and the battery life was really good. Also, it could do filtering of calls/SMS with wildcards, while you need some apps for that on Android and my friends with a fruit company phones never managed to make that work properly.

Also, the FSF should promote every free software project, and for mobile phones the alternative projects unfortunately are not in a much better shape. I tried the Pinephone but Replicant on an old Samsung phone was still far more usable for me (when there was proper 2G/3G coverage).

To me, the only thing that is missing is some more detailed information of what Replicant phones can do now, so that people can more easily decide whether it can be suitable for them or not.

Zoma
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Iscritto: 11/05/2024

That last part I can agree to.

andyprough
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Iscritto: 02/12/2015

>"This could turn people away from the FSF and GNU movements in droves."

I don't think that the people that support the FSF are going to be turned away at all by them recommending older hardware with limited capabilities. In fact, the FSF is really the only place we can turn to in order to find out which few devices can be run completely without non-free firmware, drivers or software. It's just a sad state of affairs that most newer phones and computers require so much proprietary garbage. [A lot of older phones and computers require non-free stuff too - this isn't just a "today" problem].

The people that don't support the FSF are either ignorant of all these issues or they just dislike freedom in general. Those people are not going to have their minds changed by this gift giving guide.

So if you want to argue that "people will be turned away in droves", you are going to have to try a little harder.

Avron

I am a translator!

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Iscritto: 08/18/2020

https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v15/ says

At present, Replicant is severely lacking in development attention and hardware support. If you're at all able, please contribute to the project! Although it's not currently usable for most use cases, Replicant remains the bottom line when it comes to mobile OSes that respect their user's freedom, and is a project fiscally sponsored by the FSF.

To me, that is rather clear on how usable Replicant currently is.

On the advice for contribution, I wonder whether maintaining a free Android like Replicant is not a lot more difficult than maintainting a free GNU/Linux system for a mobile phone.

Zoma
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Iscritto: 11/05/2024

@Avron that was exactly my point, replicant is far from ready to be suggested as a replacement smartphone.

@andyprough people already have enough barriers in front of them for supporting GNU.

The last thing people need is to be recommended to use replicant given its so far from being ready.

If people take such a suggestion seriously, it will cause people outrage when it doesn't work the way they expect, etc...

Sadly we live in a world where instant gratification is the main motive of mankind.

This is why replicant is not something to recommend. When its ready, that's another story.